Holy Bejesus!!
Headache's been kicking my ass all week. Not feeling very chatty. I saw this topic discussed on one of my message boards today and thought they were joking. You. will. not. believe. this. is. for. real. More messed up oppression and violence against women, brought to you courtesy of... the holy bible!
http://christiandomesticdiscipline.com/Home.html
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"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ."
This is a quote from Paul in the book of Corinthians. I can assure you that the people who put that site together are not well, not are they authentic Christians. They are not authentic any more than the vegetarian who eats fish is authentic. Someone could go to the store in Milwaukee and buy a Bucks uniform and and warm-ups and tell people that they played for the Bucks. They might even fool a few people, but they would not be a Buck.
In the same way, many twist Scripture and misuse it for their own purposes. This does not make Scripture the problem, they are. In fact, the Bible says that these kind of people will answer more severely than anyone else.
This is no way represent what the Scriptures actually say on the subject of marriage or women. It is ridiculous and I denounce it every bit as much as you do. This type of stuff comes from people not obeying the Scriptures which say that it is necessary to study the Scriptures intently so that they are read properly. People who, over the years, have claimed to be Christians but then went to war in the name of Christ, or incited violence in his name, or engage in cruelty to animals, or justify slavery, are decidely not Chritsians because they have not held to Jesus' teachings. He said very clearly that only those who held to his teachings were really his disciples.
I don't have time to broach the entire subject but rather than sujugating women, the Bible was actually quite subversive and freeing for women. The only people who claim otherwise have just not done their homework very well (sadly this is common among both Bible thumpers and Bible critics. The thumpers will read a passage and not do any work to learn what it really meant and go off half cocked, making it say whatever they want it to. The critics will often set up a straw man and then knock it down. For example, they'll take Jesus' Olivet Discourse in Matt. 24, which is thrown out by evangelical thumpers as a prediction of the end of the world, and then say, "see Jesus was a false teacher." Yet a little homework will show that Jesus was predicting the fall of the Temple and the end of the Old Covenant using very Old Testament Apocalyptic language.) For instance, Jesus allowed Mary to sit at his feet while he taught, which angered Martha. The problem wasn't that Mary wasn't working, it was that she was taking the position of a disciple, a learner. Women weren't allowed to do this, yet Jesus encouraged it. Paul's teachings on women and submission are often twisted and taken out of the context in which they were written. In fact, a careful reading of 1 Corinthians will show that Paul constantly endowed Christian women with freedoms that they did not have in Roman society.
You might wonder why so much careful study and work has to be done to understand the Bible. Why wouldn't it be more clear? First, the Bible is very clear that it takes intense study to properly understand it. One reason is that this serves to distinguish the authentic from the fake (although admittedly this can be confusing for people who don't know the Bible). Another reason is that God communicates through people, who are part of their own cultures. If Paul, for instance, or Jesus, communicated in a way that made sense to us, it would have been unintelligible to the people of their day. No, they spoke as men of their culture, using language, customs, and figures of speech common to their culture. The onus of work then, has to be on us to study their culture and learn what was being said.
I could go on forever, but the main point is that this does not represent any rational sane Christian thinking in any way. Did you get my earlier question a few days ago about anti-dog fighting groups?
Love,
Michael
I did not see your dog fighting comment until now. There is not a specific group that focuses only on this issue, but it is an issue that every animal rights grp works on. It is a big issue for me, because it is so big in this area (Jvl/Beloit-Rockford-Racine) form a nasty triangle of it. It is extremely difficult to catch and stop, because it is not usually as formal and obvious as Michael Vick's operation. It occurs in various basements (almost ALWAYS of drug dealers--the two go hand in hand). These basements are darkened (can't see in), soundproofed, and nobody is allowed in unless they are a known entity/paying customer. We are working hard in our area to educate the police as to what to look for. The problem comes in the fact that we can see a dog with clipped ears and tail (pits that fight will never have ears or tails--at least not after the first fight). We can see the training equipment, and even see the dogs being trained in the front yard--often hanging suspended from a tire, with jaws clamped tightly on it for hours, and not of that is illegal or grounds for arrest. They have to see the fight, which, as I said is difficult to impossible. It's also complicated by the ever lovely "race card", as the vast majority of participants (not all, but most) are hispanic or black. It makes it very difficult for whites to infiltrate or speak out against it as the community rallies around, claiming it's part of their culture that is being attacked (ie: see the few Michael Vick defenders--that's their position).
I absolutely understand that these people are not authentic, and this is a twisted way for men to power trip and play BDSM games without feeling guilty. I point things like this out, because it is always a danger inherent with the bible. It has been used to kill, subjugate, defend slavery, abuse, rape, war, etc. for thousands of years. Whether or not that is the orignal intent becomes moot, as long as there are people willing to buy in and follow the liars.
Trust me when I tell you that I am the first one on my vegan and my women's msg boards to point out "hypocrisy" of false vegetarians, or people who badly/falsely represent our movement. I was extremely vocal in calling out PETA several years back, when they had a pro-animal campaign that exploited women--unnecessary, unacceptable, and absolutely intolerable to demean one group in an effort to help another. I publically spoke out against them, and many in the AR community felt I should keep it quiet and not speak out against our own to anyone outside of the community. In this as any other issue, I will never sit quietly and watch any oppression or evil being done in the name of any cause or entity.
I am particularly sensitive to cases like this where the bible is used, as I feel it is, hands down, the most dangerous book ever written. More violence and evil has been justified in the name of the Bible than any other book or concept ever. In particular, women have really suffered in the name of the bible. I grant you that in sheer numbers, the Catholics have completely won the cruel, violent, and reprehensible church award, as they have mastered using the bible to kill millions and glean billions of dollars. I will always rail against them as well.
The danger comes perhaps from this fact:
First, the Bible is very clear that it takes intense study to properly understand it.
That was the original reason given by the catholics as to why the masses should not ever read the bible but only have it presented to them by a priest. There is extreme danger in that approach, obviously. I can assure you that the majority of the american population is not capable of such intense study, and will therefore never understand the bible properly. That also presents a danger (see the website above).
I have read and studied the bible, and I hate to say this, but it is relevant here, I have a much higher intelligence and education level than the majority of our country. If my repeated readings and exposure to thousands of sermons about the bible through the years yields the understanding that women are to be submissive to their husbands and are inferior to men, I can guess that most casual readers will come to the same understanding. Whether that's the originally intended meaning, that is the most obvious and most common interpretation and usage of such passages.
A side note, that I have been working with a women's group who is struggling with the issue of marital rape. Many, many churches take the stance that biblically speaking, there is no such thing as marital rape, so they have censured the women who came for help, rather than the rapist husbands. Another dangerous, common interpretation. Again, it doesn't really matter if it's what the bible really intends or not. It is being used that way.
There is also a diffuculty with assuring me that these people are not authentic christians. We both know that they may or may not be. As long as they believe the bible is the word of god and have asked forgiveness and accepted Jesus as their personal savior, they are authentic christians. They will be at the same feast you will be--wife beaters or not. Maybe only those who hold to his teachings are his disciples, but it's not required to be a christian. And, while I'm loathe to do so, we may even give these types the benefit of the doubt, in that perhaps they are truly doing their best to interpret the word of god. As long as they are, in their heart of hearts, living in the way they feel god leads them, and they have accepted christ, they are authentic christians. Just authentic christians who have misunderstood a very difficult text.
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